Monday, June 11, 2007

Paladins on the Decline

But first, let's examine some "classic" MMO theory:

MMO's have frequently designed and balanced classes around the "holy trinity" of roles: healing, tanking, and dealing damage. With regard to the last category, actual implementation has generally divided it into sub-roles of melee vs. ranged DPS - something that is irrelevant to our discussion here.

How these roles affect class popularity, I propose, depends (at least in part) on the content focus of a particular game. I say in part, because if you examine class variety (and were to poll a playerbase, I venture), damage-dealing still tends to be favored by at least a plurality (if not a majority) of players. I was planning on elaborating on this notion, but found myself being entirely too long-winded. The point of it all can be boiled down the following formulae:

Fun > Work

Healing = Work = -1 (health bar whack-a-mole sucks supreme)
Tanking = Work = 0 (at least tanks can focus primarily on the action and not UI elements)
Damage = Fun = 1

Now we're getting somewhere. Let's take it further, and break down the current WoW classes into their "role" elements:

Hunter = Damage = 1
Mage = Damage = 1
Rogue = Damage = 1
Warlock = Damage = 1
Warrior = Tanking + Damage = 1 + 0 = 1 (with a Work penalty)
Priest = Healing + Damage = 1 + -1 = 0
Druid = Healing + Tanking + Damage = -1 + 0 + 1 = 0
Shaman = Healing + Damage = -1 + 1 = 0
Paladin = Healing + Tanking = -1 + 0 = -1

Many are going to argue with me, pointing out things like "but I like healing/tanking" or "dealing damage can be work too." I would say that they're either a statistical outlier or haven't walked far enough in the shoes of a class with another role to understand. Also bear in mind that games with some to a great deal of PvP content generally exhibit an even greater trend toward broadly damage-capable classes. Everyone can kill something eventually. PvP, however, is all about kill or be killed - situations in which time is usually precious.

Now let's bring in the topic title.

Browsing the class trend graphs can be eye-opening. The Paladin in particular seems to be on the general decline - more so than other classes.

Here as seen on the Alliance side for all realms, Paladins stand as the median in popularity, but reflect a steady decline trend matched only by the Shaman class. Other classes, by comparison, seem to be holding in their popularity (if you smooth out the periodic fluctuations).

On the Horde side of things for all realms, Paladins are not only exhibiting the steepest decline but have also dropped two standings to the position of 2nd least popular class (most recently overtaken by the Shamans). Of the general increase trend seen in late May, the Paladin "upsurge" appears to be the least-steep of all the classes.

As holder of a BA in Political Science, with some education in the realm of statistics, it would be ingenuous of me to attach causality for this trend to any one particular factor or group of factors. If I were to venture a guess, though, I'd say that WoW gamers are increasingly dissatisfied playing "the healer-tank hybrid." There's a reason why so much of the LFG spam ends in "need tank/healer." Facilitating others' fun gets real old real fast. It's no wonder, then, why posts like this keep getting discussed and bumped. Blizzard's Paladin sucks, and nobody wants a repeat. There, I said it.

If I feel like it, I'll compose a follow-up post in the next week or so in which I discuss how EAMythic seems to be challenging the orthodox reverence for the "work" roles - both by making them more fun and lowering their importance, making room for everyone to have a piece of the damage pie.

18 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree. I don't think what you outlined is the sole problem with wow though. The problem that compounds the first is that the content is designed primarily around classes playing those boring roles.

That wow is balanced around pve just confounds me. Pvp is where the tears are, so if the game is balanced there, it doesn't really matter how that balance translates to pve. Either the devs tailor the encounters around pvp balanced classes, or hardcore pve'rs will find the optimum way to use that balance to their advantage.

At the moment not only is the game largely a joke for paladin players in both pve and pvp, but the game has absolutely no depth whatsoever in pvp. What horrible design decisions, I can't comprehend how Blizzard could neglect probably the fundamental reason behind mmo games - competition vs other players.

Thankfully Mythic seems to have their heads screwed on re: game design, and it looks as though that will trickle down into class design (no dedicated healers etc). I'm hugely enthusiastic about the potential this game has. I'm also wary that it is a big ask and it will take some time to get right.

Sune
70 paladin
Barthilas

11:22 PM  
Blogger Xgelis said...

I strongly agree too. I mean WoW's paladin sucks big time! Wearing the heaviest armor and sitting in the backyard spam healing others? Where's the FUN factor? I'd say consumed by the BORING factor.

As sune said above, yeah WoW as the dev. said so, is based on PvE content, and their PvP content is just mindless PvP. Reason: PvP < PvE in terms of development.

In the past though whenever I play my paladin or WoW, I feel the flow of the game, but now.. sadly NO CHANCE.

Anyway, I'd agree with Paul (from WAR cant remember his last name), that Blizzard is 'simply trying to get away with it' each and every time.

And when I go to WAR next year, I'll mostly be playing the WP class, a TRUE support class.. but still doesn't keep me away from my 'addiction' - dealing damage. I have high hopes on WAR, hope it doesn't let me down, or us who are going there down.

Xphxgelis - Dwarf Paladin (70)
Kalecgos - US

5:14 AM  
Blogger Kaziel said...

Again, I disagree, but more based on your core theory than the numbers involved. While I will agree that Fun > Work, what is fun and what is not is entirely subjective. While I won't disagree that many players find DDing to be preferred, for me at least, adding DDing to those roles won't suddenly make them more fun. And while I may be the minority on this group, the most successful game designers must design not just for the majority, but for the minorities too.

I am currently at work behind a firewall, thus unable to see the numbers which you linked, but there are any of a number of other possibilities that would explain the sudden loss of paladins. For example, the infamous quote by Kalgan that said that the Ret tree was for "solo'ing/questing/'grinding'"... While I personally flat-out disagree with this sentiment (I am one of the raid leaders for my guild and I want a Ret pally in my runs) I have little doubt that this statment hit the collective Ret players in the gut. No matter whether you agree with the sentiment or disagree with it, saying it in such a way was a bad move from a business perspective. I can too easily imagine many players, upon reading this, to not respond by respeccing or rerolling, but just saying "Fsck it!" and quitting WoW. This could pretty easily account for losses, at least in the last month or two... not sure beyond that.

Next, even with the information gained about the Warrior Priest's class abilities, I don't think that you can yet adequately estimate how the Warrior Priest (or any other class) will turn out. On paper, it looks great. But at the same time, on paper the WoW Paladin looked great, and now you vehemently hate how it turned out. And despite our disagreements, I hope it's what you and everyone else wants. In the end, my desire has always been for everyone to be happy with their playtime.

Finally, since we I doubt we'll ever agree on this one, there's only one way to settle it. Since we're both interested in a PvP game, and I'm quite interested in being a Chosen of Tzeentch, the correct way is for us (me) to slaughter each other (you). :D

7:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While I agree with most of what you've said (and I'm not arguing with you, really, honest!), but I have to be one of the people who raises their gauntlet and say "but I like healing/tanking!".... sort of.

I like the leadership role that tanking entails. You're often the first in, the last out, and the focus of the entire fight. Without the tank taking charge and leading, things go to Hell pretty quick. For that reason alone, I am somewhat an advocate of giving paladins a strong tanking ability; they should be natural leaders on the battlefield.

As it is now, Tanking with my off-spec 65 paladin (21/whatever/0) is a full time job and offers a challenge, more than my 60 Warrior ever was (Gather as much +Def gear as possible, Spam Sunder, Spam Revenge, taunt as required). For that reason alone (I actually have to do stuff in combat, what a change for a pally!), I like it. I think the Prot tree needs some changes (but god, give Ret a reboot first) and it would be great.

I will agree that tanking is not for everyone, and while I fetch compliments for it and often land in groups, I don't want it to be my fulltime job (that would be making smartass comments mid-fight). I like the duality and variety the class provides, which is one reason I'm sure it's so possible; you're not painted into a niche... well, at least, you're not SUPPOSED to be.

Blizzard needs to fix the class, plain and simple. Better options for the Prot tree (At least let us push Crushing Blows off easier) and a total rework of the Ret tree and we'll see.

I'm still waiting for WAR, of course, and am much more excited by the prospect of the WP than I am by anything Blizzard has offered in the last year.

7:41 AM  
Blogger Kaziel said...

And when I go to WAR next year, I'll mostly be playing the WP class, a TRUE support class.. but still doesn't keep me away from my 'addiction' - dealing damage.

Maybe it's just me... but if you really like being a DD... why not be a DD? I'm not trying to be a dick here, but this is something I've never really understood. Why play something you don't enjoy when you could play something you'd enjoy more? To get groups (or whatever)? Then you're in a group doing something you don't really enjoy. Even if it's played in a way that mixes DPS with healing, your primary priority is still to heal, since you're the only one who can do it. For those who find the "life bar whack-a-mole" style of healing boring, but like the idea of healing I can understand the appeal of being a WP, but for someone like you, I don't get it.

9:01 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Personally, it's not so much an issue with being the healer/tank, as it is the way healing works in WoW.

I love being the rallying point for a group, buffing, cleansing, healing, and basically leading my allies, and letting them do their thing (bash some heads, pretty much). Being the holy warrior in full plate striding to the front of combat has always been pretty darn cool for me.

However, it does get a little boring when all you do is click different allies with your UI and hit the same few heal buttons again and again, for an entire fight.

The appeal of WAR's style of healing is supposed to be the fact that not only do you have the chance to do something else, but that you're required to, so you're less likely to get pigeonholed into standing way at the back, spamming heals over and over ad nauseum. Instead, you can be smashing one foe with your mace, or snaring a group of enemies so that your allies have an easier time bringing them down, while building your righteous fury that is required for you to be able to heal.

At least, that's the idea...

Tiberian (70 Paladin, US-The Venture Co.)

Tiberian Berthold
http://pg.guildlaunch.com

11:10 AM  
Blogger Vaelin said...

The problem with Kaziel's proposed solution (just reroll a DPS class) is that it's shortsighted. If everyone who disliked the way healing worked in WoW were to abandon their class for one without healing abilities, the healer shortage would move from annoying to critical.

As for the Chosen, I'll just repost a response I put up on the Warhammer Alliance forums regarding that issue:

It seems like a lot of the Chosen fanatics are expecting their class to be an all-out, balls to the wall DPS monster that will always destroy Warrior Priests (because it's what happened in the cinematic!) and pretty much anything else. I think they're in for as much of a reality check as those who think the Warrior Priest will never have to throw a heal. Granted, both classes will be a lot of fun and do plenty of meleeing, but probably won't play to their full potential unless the player utilizes every facet of the class.

Just as Warrior Priests will have some healing potency, the Chosen will excel in damage absorption. In a way, they're both very similar in that while they'll probably do decent damage, success in battle will depend more on outlasting their opponent by restoring health or not taking as much damage to begin with. The trade off will be that they'll almost certainly have fewer directly offensive combat options than classes like the Witch Hunter, Marauder, Orc Choppa, or Hammerer.

EAMythic isn't completely eliminating the traditionally boring "chore" roles of healer/tank. Rather they're intending to make them fun and interactive, and largely secondary to everybody's primary role - to beat the #@*& out of each other. WAR has the flexibility to do this, because the endgame won't consist exclusively of massive scale care bear raids that demand min/maxing and extreme specialization (including requiring massive amounts of continuous heal-spam and maximizing tank mitigation even if it means hitting like a wet noodle).

2:25 PM  
Blogger Vaelin said...

As for the WoW Paladin looking good "on paper," it went beyond that. The class lined up with the lore and the hype throughout beta, with a decent variety of combat options - all of which were dumped for a clunky and ineffective auto-attack-with-enhancements combat system. If WAR goes down the same road (a suicidal move, in my opinion, given the amount of support they're gaining from the burned out hybrid community in WoW), then there'll be hell to pay.

2:40 PM  
Blogger Xgelis said...

To kaziel:

What I'm basically trying to say is that I like a class type of been able to do everything, dps heal blah blah. And you mentioned 'primary role is still to heal', does this apply to the WP? Well I'd slightly agree because it all boils down to the player's preference.

And yes, maybe it's just you. Your POV and my POV are completely out of each other's LOS. So we won't be understanding what we are saying anytime soon.

And 1 more thing, I said 'addiction to DD', didn't say I wanted to be a DD class/role. Get the fact straight 1st before pointing out here and there. Once again it all coems down to our different POVs.

Once again, no hard feelings there.

10:46 PM  
Blogger Xgelis said...

Hey tiberian pg,
I do completely agree with you on that. Required to do something 1st to be ABLE to do something else more effectively to that of a matter.

*EDIT: To my above post, subst DD away for melee action. I should say I love melee instead, that should leave out the confusion.

10:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Heres a post from the wow europe forums detailing the patch history of the paladin class. Talk about depressing.

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=286592162&postId=2864877761&sid=1#0

Sune
70 paladin
Barthilas

2:27 AM  
Blogger Xgelis said...

That's disturbing.. I miss the old times..

2:59 AM  
Blogger CultureFall said...

First to Kaziel's, "Why not role a DPS class?" question, it really comes down to the fact that the DPS classes don't represent what I want to play as. I want to be a Holy knight, not a stealthy assassin or a roid-crazed warrior. If I spent all my time using skills wit different synonyms for 'rend' I'd go batty. I'm not much of a caster fan either, I like melee. Blizzard put the ret tree, it should be supported.

The Chosen are going to be a tanking class, but ALL classes in Warhammer have the ability to deal damage on some level. As I've said before, as long as a Chosen stands an even chance with other classes in a fight, they have enough damage and tanking ability.

As for tanking = 0, I disagree. Tanking is a fun activity. The reason I think why people are reluctant to do it is because it is very high profile. It's easy to spot a bad tank when you're in a raid.

4:54 AM  
Blogger Vaelin said...

A quick word on my number assignments. These values are based on how the roles are implemented in WoW. Healing gets -1 because it's only done one way - you target a friendly (or most often their health bar in the UI) and press a key. You have to stop doing whatever else you've been doing, be it casting nukes or beating on something, and wait for the heal to go off. Healing in WoW is done via ranged, focused casting - something that really sucks when you're supposed to be a melee class (like a Paladin).

Tanking gets a 0 because while it's not quite as boring as healing (at least you get to pay attention to something other than the UI), the WoW endgame demands that you min/max to be most effective. This means your mitigation shoots up, but your damage goes down in exchange. Since none of the PvE tanking abilities serve a purpose in PvP, this effectively gimps you when you decide to hit a battleground or arena.

I expect the numbers to change a bit in WAR.

6:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the only thing im sad about now is..

I won't be able to be a dwarf warrior priest =(

8:37 AM  
Blogger Kaziel said...

As for the Chosen, I'll just repost a response I put up on the Warhammer Alliance forums regarding that issue:

It seems like a lot of the Chosen fanatics are expecting their class to be an all-out, balls to the wall DPS monster that will always destroy Warrior Priests (because it's what happened in the cinematic!) and pretty much anything else. I think they're in for as much of a reality check as those who think the Warrior Priest will never have to throw a heal. Granted, both classes will be a lot of fun and do plenty of meleeing, but probably won't play to their full potential unless the player utilizes every facet of the class.

Just as Warrior Priests will have some healing potency, the Chosen will excel in damage absorption. In a way, they're both very similar in that while they'll probably do decent damage, success in battle will depend more on outlasting their opponent by restoring health or not taking as much damage to begin with. The trade off will be that they'll almost certainly have fewer directly offensive combat options than classes like the Witch Hunter, Marauder, Orc Choppa, or Hammerer.


I posted pretty much exactly this post over on Thrillhouse's Children of the Khorne forum (said post hasn't been approved yet). As I've said elsewhere, I love tanking. I love the challenge of it, and I love pressure it puts on me. I'm having the most fun when I'm in a high pressure situation. Yes, I'm probably loony.

And honestly I've always preferred being the "good guys", but of the tanking classes they've announced for the Order side of things make me go "Bleh!" Ironbreaker? No thanks. And I hate how the Knights of the Blazing Sun look. If they had Knights of the White Wolf, that would be another matter, but Mythic's made it's choice. Maybe the High Elf tank will be totally awesome and make me change my mind. But I'm not holding my breath. On the other hand the Black Orc and even more so, the Chosen of Tzeentch just look awesome and more specifically they look fun to play. And isn't that what we all really want?

As for the WoW Paladin looking good "on paper," it went beyond that. The class lined up with the lore and the hype throughout beta, with a decent variety of combat options - all of which were dumped for a clunky and ineffective auto-attack-with-enhancements combat system. If WAR goes down the same road (a suicidal move, in my opinion, given the amount of support they're gaining from the burned out hybrid community in WoW), then there'll be hell to pay.

When I made the comment that this was a reply to, my only point is not to count your chickens before they are hatched. That's all. Do I hope they do right by the Warrior Priest and make them front line Healer/DPSers? Absolutely! (It will make it easier to get to you to gut you...) All I'm saying is to be cautious.

What I'm basically trying to say is that I like a class type of been able to do everything, dps heal blah blah. And you mentioned 'primary role is still to heal', does this apply to the WP? Well I'd slightly agree because it all boils down to the player's preference.

And yes, maybe it's just you. Your POV and my POV are completely out of each other's LOS. So we won't be understanding what we are saying anytime soon.


Ah, now I understand. And in response to the primary role to heal, the problem I see coming is when someone who can do something to help out the fight beyond just killing doesn't do that. I'm not just talking about healers. I mean tanking classes not using the taunt type ability they've described (lowering damage to all allies but themselves by 75%) because their too busy killing other target. Any class not using some sort of CC to stop the target from damaging their allies. Again, maybe I'm something of the odd man out in this view, but in my view a group of 5 people working as a team is more powerful than 10 players each working on their own.

Also, to clarify, what I'm not saying is that healers should "get bck n hael me n00b!!!1111". The core design of, at the very least, the Warrior Priest is if they aren't smashing faces they are healing like crap. And I expect a somewhat similar design in the other healing and tanking classes.

And honestly, looking at the replies here, I doubt it will be an issue for most of the people here. What do I see? Coherent arguments and complete sentences. This is the sign that the people here are not stupid. I would think that all of you will be able to realize when a heal is needed or when a face smashing is needed, and make the correct decision. I'm just worried that there will be too many people who get too wrapped up in smashing faces and then suddenly they are the only friendly standing and there are still four or five not-friendlies grinning at them holding up pointy sticks and whatnot.

9:20 AM  
Blogger Xgelis said...

Lest we'are on the same page now (I assume it's safe to say this).

7:55 PM  
Blogger CultureFall said...

Comment just got approved kaz ;-)

5:24 AM  

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